Curse

Unsung · Sep 13, 2006, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Version 1 www.gwshack.us/8c55a
Version 2 www.gwshack.us/4859e

I would like your comments on this build please.

EDIT:

- Added Sprint on the Shock Axe.
- Swapped Consume Soul for Expel Hexes on the Sword Warrior.
- Changed the Me/N to the original version with Energy Drain.
- Swapped Imagined Burden and Resurrect for Distortion and Resurrection Chant
- Changed the Water Runner to a Hybrid Runner.
- Changed to Energy Drain Boon Prot into a Mantra of Recall Boon Prot.

twicky_kid · Sep 13, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Interesting build.

I can see conditions being a huge problem as you only have 1 draw and 1 mend ailment.

I would suggest Empathic removal instead of expel. Expel is rather conditional while empathic will always have a use. This should also help you condition mangement.

Also use res change instead of ressurect. You also need distortion on your hard resser or he's going to be interrupted by rangers and distracting blow very easily.

~Vanilla~ · Sep 13, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

There are 1 draw and 2 mend conditions in this build.

And the Expel Mesmer is Necro Secondary, so no Empathic Rermoval for him.

Wasn't the idea of a Consume Soul Sword War to destroy Spirits without having to get into melee range of them? I'd take Charge, Dragon Slash or Bull's Charge instead.

Thomas.knbk · Sep 13, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

With the new modifications to the build conditions shoudnt be a problem anymore. I strongly suggest changing rush to sprint since it's GvG. If you fail to see why, say so on this thread and I'll leave another reply.
Leave ressurect out on the mesmer and take Ressurection Chant. It's like....better in every way you can possibly see it lol.
Also the way I see it the second mesmer kinda lacks a cover hex. Try mind wrack, even unstatted.
Also I dont agree with superior runes on boon prots but that's already been talked about EXTENSIVELY on lots of other threads. If you can get your hands on a PvE monk, swapping headgear ftw, otherwise major rune will save you 40HP, while you only heal for 6 points less.
CoP also isn't worth the slot imo if you don't use MoR for energy management because if you do you'll have 2 enchants on you practically permanently, with Edrain only 1.
I know I dont agree with a lot of things but still the builkd has potential. GJ

~Vanilla~ · Sep 13, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Please tell me why Rush isn't a GvG Skill. I always thought Rush was more GvG like and Sprint the no-brainer in HA.

Lord Dark Genie · Sep 13, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

CoP also isn't worth the slot imo if you don't use MoR for energy management because if you do you'll have 2 enchants on you practically permanently, with Edrain only 1.

If you don't run CoP, you either need Mend ailment or large amounts of off-monk condition removal..

JR · Sep 13, 2006, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Dark Genie

If you don't run CoP, you either need Mend ailment or large amounts of off-monk condition removal..

Someone with Draw is fine.

Thomas.knbk · Sep 13, 2006, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Vanilla~

Please tell me why Rush isn't a GvG Skill. I always thought Rush was more GvG like and Sprint the no-brainer in HA.

You dont use rush in GvG because compared to HA you'll have a harder time gaining adrenaline. Also, you'll need to cover greater distances. Good Luck rushing out of your base after a res, for instance. In HA you'll almost always be in the position to gain adrenaline, due to the smaller maps=less space to run.
Bottom Line: On-Demand speed boost>conditional speed boost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Dark Genie

If you don't run CoP, you either need Mend ailment or large amounts of off-monk condition removal..

JR is right that 'something with draw' works fine. Besides, 2 monks using mend condition on each other will generally be more effective than 2 monks using mend aliment on themselves.

kryshnysh · Sep 13, 2006, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Vanilla~

Wasn't the idea of a Consume Soul Sword War to destroy Spirits without having to get into melee range of them?

To add to this... Thursday, July 27th skill update:

Quote:

Consume Soul: updated to match its description. The caster must target and touch a Spirit.

which means that you now have to get in melee range, almost as useful to just go without it then.

Clinically Proven · Sep 13, 2006, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

You dont use rush in GvG because compared to HA you'll have a harder time gaining adrenaline. Also, you'll need to cover greater distances. Good Luck rushing out of your base after a res, for instance. In HA you'll almost always be in the position to gain adrenaline, due to the smaller maps=less space to run.
Bottom Line: On-Demand speed boost>conditional speed boost.

Complete crap.

HA = Sprint for altar capping and relic runs. Obviously you can't gain adrenaline, or it'll rely on inbound damage at these times, thus sprint is ALWAYS the HA choice.

GvG = Situational, depending on build.

As witnessed in the GWFC. http://www.guildwars.com/competitive/gwfc/skillusage/

Rush is usually preffered as its low adrenal cost means:

* You can keep it up pretty much all the time during combat.
* It'll be more readily available to cancel out frenzy.
* Saves energy for other skills, important given war's low energy pool, especially true on hammer wars, as they are energy hungry beasts.

Furthermore, Charge sword wars are pretty common, as are air e/mo runners, so most 'mobility' issues will be taken care of by "Charge!", "Retreat" (more limited use) or windborne from a flagger.

In the build being reviewed here, I would agree with the earlier post that a sword charge would provide greater utility and mobility to the build.

TheOneMephisto · Sep 13, 2006, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clinically Proven

Complete crap.

HA = Sprint for altar capping and relic runs. Obviously you can't gain adrenaline, or it'll rely on inbound damage at these times, thus sprint is ALWAYS the HA choice.

GvG = Situational, depending on build. Rush is usually preffered as its low adrenal cost means:

* You can keep it up pretty much all the time during combat.
* It'll be more readily available to cancel out frenzy.
* Saves energy for other skills, important given war's low energy pool, especially true on hammer wars, as they are energy hungry beasts.

Furthermore, Charge sword wars are pretty common, as are air e/mo runners, so most 'mobility' issues will be taken care of by "Charge!", "Retreat" (more limited use) or windborne from a flagger.

In the build being reviewed here, I would agree with the earlier post that a sword charge would provide greater utility and mobility to the build.

In HA you need one character with a self-speed boost, that's it.

In GvG you generally don't use rush unless you're running an energy-heavy hammer war. Sprint allows you to sprint back to oRED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOer splits, helps mobility, allows you to sprint back to battles after resses or to try to suprise them or catch a flagger, etc. Rush only allows you to run around the flagstand battle more.

What happens if you happen not to be paired up with a sword warrior? Retreat is hardly used, and flaggers are barely at the stand ready to use windborne.

wolfy3455 · Sep 14, 2006, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Pure water runners are gankbait. Without BF, they lose or are seriously slowed down by most common 1v1 opponents. You'd be better off with a hybrid or an air+df.

BaseKid · Sep 14, 2006, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Unless your facing builds with a rit or gimmick builds that overload on spirits, consume soul is not needed. However, if you are not bring charge on the warrior, past points made in this thread make sense:

The hammer warrior is better off with rush.

The Axe warrior can easily use sprint instead of rush--take it.

Now, imo the mes/n would be better off with spirit of failure rather than etap.

The mes/mo isn't as good as it could be: Crippling Anguish makes a much better snare than imagined burden, and etap is great for this bar.

I would also suggest bringing distortion: it's a lifesaver against warrior spikes, and is a great addition to have when the mesmer you are using it on has a hard res: somethign the opponent will likely look to interupt, seeing you will be out of rez sigs (like said earlier in this thread)

The E/Mo is great in theory, although ice spear is a total waste of a slot. As a flag runner, you generally can't rely on blurred vision to be that close to your target. Need defense for ganking assassins, crip shot rangers, etc, etc, etc. Blurred Vision doesn't cut it. Also shard storm might be a valid option instead of Ice Spikes b/c of it's recharge.

You COULD possibly bring expel hexes on the sword warrior, and take out the necro. You wanted warrior pressure, so an option you may have is to have that ele/mo water tag along, and bring a ward against melee rather than spear, and glyph of sacrafice rather than mist and res chant rather than breeze. Than have your flag runner be a standard air ele runner. In order for this to work however, the mesmer needs crippling anguish for more ease to cover hex.

Of course, these are only my opinions. There are other options. Want to lean towards condition pressure with your warriors? Bring a taint N/Mo w/draw and a crip shot ranger. Although, if you really want this to be degen pressure, something needs to be changed. My last suggestion would be ok, even though you lose the hard res, it's much more pressure and has sufficient defense if used appropiately. Like the idea, just needs a little tweaking.

Thomas.knbk · Sep 14, 2006, 02:04 PM // 14:04

@Clinically
And what if, say, the runner dies and the war is asked to run the flag? GL rushing to your base and back

JR · Sep 14, 2006, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

@Clinically
And what if, say, the runner dies and the war is asked to run the flag? GL rushing to your base and back

...because the few seconds that using Sprint would cut off the journey are clearly key? Don't be silly. Rush is up more often than sprint, allowing you to Frenzy more often. That's about all that counts.

Lord Dark Genie · Sep 14, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

JR is right that 'something with draw' works fine. Besides, 2 monks using mend condition on each other will generally be more effective than 2 monks using mend aliment on themselves.

Sure, but...

What do you do when "something with draw" has to split away from your monk without self-condition removal ? On top of that, the something with draw in the build is a rezmer without distortion. He's gonna be a high-priority target really quickly, probably the most likely to get high DP. Relying on that something to pull off deepwounds and cripple in split situations seems risky...

Unsung · Sep 14, 2006, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Thanks for all the input guys, i have changed the build abit what do you think?

Thomas.knbk · Sep 14, 2006, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Very.......brave to change sprint to rush with so many people disagreeing. I personally still think it's the right choice though.
One last suggestion is, since the update is out, to change the monk backline to either a boon+BL monk or 2 GoH boon monks. http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10034328 discusses this more extensively.